My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby freefromthebeast on Fri May 06, 2011 7:46 pm

Thank you Isis,
I understand she is raw with just getting hit with this. My old battle seems much more distant as I don't have the ongoing struggle these days. Even though I have told her that I have this amount of time clean, so doesn't believe me, and probably thinks I may still be a user to this day. I am trying to just listen, and be humble. It pains me to have hurt her so much, and my reason to disclose now is oddly enough because I seek true intimacy with her. I know that without coming clean, that our new level of true intimacy would be hindered and limited. Yet this disclosure has now left her feeling betrayed and she sees me as a liar all these years-her trust in me is destroyed. I am aware of the tendency as a man to fix things -especially if they are something caused by me. Right now she doesn't want to talk to me and has left me with the kids and took off for the day. I feel that even mentioning that I am not that man anymore will only come off as me trying to control her feelings and attempting to make myself look better. So we shall see, for now I will be patient and pray that her/our healing will be thorough and complete....however long that will take.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby Isis on Fri May 06, 2011 8:38 pm

Yeah, well don't mention it. Don't even try to defend yourself beause there really is no defense for it. Try to trust that you married a reasonable, responsible, woman, and as such she will be able to short out, in due time, where you've been authentic and where you haven't been. Just because everything "feels like" a lie, that doesn't mean "everything" was a lie. That's why I was suggesting you try to remember that the "feelings" we have in any given moment do not define something in it's entirity, nor over time. You know what you've done and how hard you've worked so don't let anything she says take away from that awareness. And you know what your motivation is, so hold on to those good intentions even if she can't see or feel them right now. Doing the right thing is never the easy route, and the trick is to just ride it out. Ride the waves and be willing to go whereever she wants to take it when she tells where that is. She won't be able to swallow the elephant whole so she's have to chew on different pieces for a bit.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby witness on Sat May 07, 2011 8:23 am

My wife took this VERY hard. That does not seem to be unusual.

fftb, you and your wife would both benefit from the book: NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass. You can probably find it at your library. It deals with betrayal in general.

And I have received very good advice in this thread as well as in my thread on the old board:
http://lightwave.proboards.com/index.cg ... read=22175
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby freefromthebeast on Sat May 07, 2011 10:47 am

Thanks Witness,

Books are almost always a big help for me....I'll be reading that one for sure. She is really trying hard to forgive me and I want to offer her resources to understand the addiction. Right now, she just doesn't relate to why I did it. She automatically feels inadequate and the reason I used to look at porn was because she did not measure up. I told her that was not the reason, and no man is immune from the sickness-regardless if he is in a relationship with a beautiful SO. I expected that I would be sleeping in our trailer outside for some time after this happened, but she said wanted me to stay in our bed. She also wanted me to hold her last night-which I also expected was not likely to happen for a while. So the Lord is doing a mighty work in her! Amazing!

Fftbd

Any other references on the subject and repairing marriages after d-day would be appreciated
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby MiMi on Sat May 07, 2011 11:57 am

NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass


As an SO this book was very triggering for me. Not saying don't read it just fyi.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby Isis on Sat May 07, 2011 1:26 pm

You can probably expect it to hit her in waves and to take a good long time for her to process it. We generally go into some sort of state of shock. Emotional shock maybe. And often it's when that shock begins to wear off that we do our most acting up and out. The feelings that flood and overload our systems and wreck internal havoc is how we know it's most definately adultry. The shock is so great that some sort of defense mech kicks on to keep it from killing us. It tends to numb us up, which affects our ability to feel both good and bad emotions. Physical symptoms and pain can manifest too, so don't be surprised if that happens to her.

She might find the partners lessons at recovery nation helpful perhaps. But typically our souls will take us where ever we need to go with it. It's kind of tricky because the less we know the more it hurts, but then the more we know the more it hurts too, so it's hard to know which way to go. And mostly it just takes time to get anywhere with it. She'll basically have to go thru the same process as you with it, where she will have to bust a lot of p lies, and lies for wives, and her blinders and rose color glasses will have to come off completely, and then she'll have to reorder herself and put humpty dumpty back together again in the light of truth. She may have intrusive images of you being with all those women, so hold on to your hat for that phase. And try to remember that our symptoms are intrusive, it's not as if we get to "choose" them anymore than you got to "choose" your symptoms. And no matter how rough it gets remember that you still did the right thing. Doing the right thing is almost always harder than doing the wrong thing, so it often comes with pain, but that doesn't make it the wrong thing.

It's good that you told her because as you said, ya'lls ability to obtain true intimacy and experience the full power of love is dependent on absolute honesty. So hold on to that thought, and view it as the light at the end of the tunnel. And just remember that anything that happens in the meantime is just transition, it's not having arrived at the final destination.

We are amazing and we have more love in our thumbs than PAs can typically imagine might run thru our whole bodies. And you have somewhat of an advantage in that you've already stopped, so that will help some. It might not "feel like" it helps that much, but this is not the time to go with your "feelings" but rather just try to sit with them, and let the pain flow thru you rather than inadverntely stacking it up internally. Try to put yourself in her shoes, and imagine it as if you just found out she's been with dozens of men behind you back, because that's what it "feels like" to us. It's not "just p" because those are real women, and you were really with them mentally, and spiritually, and emotionally, and really physically too if mb is involved. It feels real to the users because it is REAL, and that's the appeal. And our hearts and souls know that long before we can wrap our heads around all the nuances of it.

I haven't read Not just friends yet, but it does blow my mind to know that my h thinks what we have is a typical or even good marriage. He thinks platonic is normal for marriages. But I don't even really consider him a "friend", but rather more like a lost soul that I have to be very guarded around. He's my friend in so much as he is able to be anyones friend, but he's not very able to be his own friend yet, much less anyone elses imo. But it blows my mind to think of him as thinking there is anything remotely "normal" about our relationship. It shows me how shallow "normal" is to him now. And how little he's willing to settle for, and thinks I should settle for too. I kind of get it because he gets the benefit of a lot of things I don't get. I'm still present and he benefits from that, but he's not present so that takes away from what I have, or get. Yet it's like he views himself as if he brings what I bring because he doesn't really know the difference between him and me, or he doesn't know the difference between where he ends and where I begin per se. It's very bizarre to say the very least. But if I can heal while still living with a guy who hasn't change a single thing, then I know women can heal regardless of whether their men have changed or not. It just takes a lot of time and effort, and a willingness to go places we would never have chosen to go were we not more or less forced into it. But the good news is we come out the other side eventually and become much better ppl than we were before. She'll have to grow a lot of empathy and gain a PA education. She'll have to "un-internalize" it and that will likely take a long time. We can't view those women as if they are mere objects the way users do, without also objectifying ourselves internally. And those are among the hardest symptoms to work out. It's hard to imagine that we're viewed as "real" whenever a guy still view any women as if they aren't. We can wrap our heads around it eventually, but typically we have to dumb way down, and suspend all awareness of our emotional components to get an idea of what it's like for users. We tend to look for that "something more" that explains it, but the answers are better found by looking for that "something less". And for lack of better way to explain it that requires that we dumb ourselves down, but that's soo not typical that we rarely think to go that way with it at first. We try to figure out what ya'll were thinking, but the answer is that users are "not thinking", not capable of thinking straight per se. So it might help if the opportunity present itself to try to explain that you were not thinking clearly, rather than trying to explain what you were thinking. The sense we eventually make of it is no matter what you thought you were thinking it was utter fantasy based shallow nonesense.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby witness on Mon May 09, 2011 7:16 am

Isis is right about the waves. My wife had days when the waves would hit very hard and the anger was overwhelming.
You might look at the stages of grief. Your wife will go through those stages as she is grieving the loss of the marriage she thought she had but didn't.

No Just Friends is a great resource. You will also find False Intimacy by Schaumburg to be very good.
As Isis suggested both of you can find help at Recovery Nation.

And a good book for couples is AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE by Wangerin.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby Isis on Mon May 09, 2011 4:05 pm

I think one of the best things to try to use when you try to understand her, is the knowledge about how p affected you, and the knowledge about your own symptoms. Because I think we basically come down with the same thing, only with slightly different twists to it. For ex, a guy a views p, and then starts getting intrusive thoughts about it, and that symptom where p is superimposed on to other women you might see on the street or whatever like that. I think many guys think that's a gender difference thing, but it's really a p use induce symptom. But my point is imagine how you might have been going thru your day, not really thinking about p, then WHAM an intrusive thought or reminder might pop into your mind and perhaps cause you to seek to act out or whatever like that. It's kind of like that with us in that intrusive thoughts and images can flood our minds at any times, only rather than causing us to "act out" in the p/mb way it cause us to "lash out" in the pain filled way. To the PA these type triggers might bring thoughts of perceived good things because they are associated with orgasm or whatever like that. But for the SO they are associated with the severe pain of infidelity so that's what we get triggered back into when the intrusive thoughts come. And just like you might have known you were doing the wrong thing while acting out, at first you didn't have the ability to stop yourself, we ge that symptom too. Sometimes we know we shouldn't be saying the things that come out of our mouths, but they come out anyway, and they really need to be said even though it's hard and hurtful sometimes. Just know that just like you didn't want your p habit to hurt her, she doesn't want her symptoms to hurt you either, but thats the nature of the beast until we address all our symptoms. And theres that element where defense mechs kick on and ensure we only get an amount we can handle at one time, so the rest stays in there and will have to come out later in order for her to get rid of it. So that process creates the wave element that we experience and witness imo. We'll process a bit and get to feeling a bit better, then wham the next wave comes, the next layer is peeled back and exposed to us, and the cycle repeats until we get thru all the layers eventually. You can know she wants to love you freely and wants to be rid of these symptoms, but it's not that simple just like it wasn't that simple for you to address your p habit initially. It feels like a curse, but really she's being given something that will turn into a blessing in the long run so long as she allows herself to go thru the process. And your job needs to be to not do anything that might slow down her progress, or interrupt her natural healing process. It's a good time practice your listening skills and patience skills, and work on getting rid of any residual not good enough issues that you might still have and that her comments or behaviors might trigger when and if she acts out or expresses her frustration. Think about if she had cheated on you, and you were distraught about it, what might she do to help you feel better, or to not make it worse? Try to find those type things to do, and try not to say anything that might be remotely minimizing or even give the appearance of possibly being minimizing. Know that her mind might twist things just like your mind was twisting it when you were rife with worse symptoms. Use your knowledge of how you got from deep in the pit to somewhat out of it, because she is in essence going thru the exact same process. She will have to learn many of the exact same lessons that you have learned already, and we know that takes a considerable amount of time, so don't inadvertently set yourself up for more emotional dissappointed by expecting it to be otherwise.
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby witness on Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:34 am

My wife and I just celebrated our anniversary! She told me how much she loves me. We both believe that our love is deeper now than ever before.

I disclosed my secret sin to her almost 5 years ago. For a while she associated our anniversary with my addiction. I'm so glad that she has been able to move past that. It has been a long road for both of us.

My past mistakes caused both of us great pain. But by moving forward and walking in the light we have found healing and hope!

I thank God for a new day and for being with us every step of the way!
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Re: My wife and I / Putting the pieces back together

Postby transitionalgrace on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:51 pm

Witness, you have a lot to be thankful for. May God continue to bless you with a life without addiction and with the support of love of your family
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